Additionally, Shimano produces a smaller and lighter 504Wh option, which is also cheaper and helps to bring the complete bike price down see the sub-$8K Polygon Mt Bromo N8 for example. As of April 2021, all of Commencals EP8-equipped bikes have been specced with Shimano cranks, but this change has taken some time to filter through to consumers because of the time it takes for fully built bikes to get to the shop floor. The compact size and a magnesium casing helped cut 300 grams. The charge bars are a major issues though on the 8000, after a bit of use the battery becomes extremely unpredictable. Hitting those famous tracks day in, day out for eight years, he broke more bikes than he can remember. And that's with the big heavy battery too. How stuff like this gets through what I would like to think was extensive testing I will never know. Stab happy!". Funny that Shimano now budget e-bike motor builds? And we certainly wouldnt be upset if Shimano could quieten down the clacking noise. e*thirteen recommends inspecting Shimano EP8 motor spindles to ensure no cracks are present before riding any EP8 equipped bike again and in doing so have provided a step by step process for doing this with images and instructions below. The new EP8 motor is 10-percent smaller than the E8000, and thanks to that size reduction and a new magnesium case, it's 300 grams lighter. Here youll find three sliding scales for each of the three assist modes (thats Eco, Trail and Boost). This speed may be enough, but some people may find it very frustrating because from 25 km/h they have to make a gigantic effort to follow their teammates since the assistance is cut off or simply because they want to go faster. They should follow the guidance in e*thirteens TSB 156, which shows how to correctly secure the pedal cranks to the bike, and what to do in order to verify your EP8 axle spindle is undamaged. Take note of how much elevation you achieve during those rides (elevation is more important than distance when determining range), and keep that number in mind when youre planning future all-day epics. Just kidding! On my older gen Bosch motor with a 500wh battery I can get about 30 miles out of a battery charge if I only turbo up the steepest climbs and do the other bits in low/mid power settings (and I'm about 100kg's / 16 stone which sucks battery). According to the TSB, only Shimanos EP8 motor is affected. Maximum power output sits at 500W, although the. Basically any minor impact that causes the chain to bounce and tug at the chainring will result in noise. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a normal clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. By their own standards of non-assist components, this motor is not worthy of the shimano name. The Pivot Shuttle, for example, employs a huge 726Wh battery made by a third party company called Darfon. Drive Unit Display Assist Switch Battery Drivetrain Tackle steep climbs and tough trails with full confidence thanks to 85Nm maximum torque. Once paired, find the Customise menu and select Assist. Alex then moved back to the UK and put his vast knowledge of mountain biking to good use by landing a job working for MBUK magazine as features editor. Our advice is not to rely on the range estimation in the first place. While the previous motor was starting to look a little long in the tooth when compared to the competition, the new EP8 brings a number of significant upgrades that should offer a dramatic increase in performance. The question of what happens with this combination is for the manufacturer of that combination to answer.. And you can take the motor together with a battery out in matter of seconds. However, where the Bosch Gen 4 feels like a diesel engine at low RPMs, the sporty EP8 drive unit still prefers spinning at a higher cadence. Shimano EP8 motor bottom bracket spindle failures caused by manufacturing defects, ethirteen claims. With the new EP8, Shimano managed to close the gap to its biggest competitors. Unfortunately frenchies and Germans are not masters of marketing. For consumers who do have an EP8-equipped Commencal with e*thirteen cranks, the Andorran brand is offering to replace the e*thirteen cranks with Shimano ones, regardless of whether theyve experienced issues with their EP8 spindle or not. And with brands such as Merida and Canyon making use of internal wiring through the handlebars, the whole arrangement is quite tidy. Bikers Edge in Kaysville Utah hooked it up and took a motor off their demo heckler mx and put it on mine. As soon as we got the first failures we [started to] spec Shimano [cranks] again but lead time[s] to get the first crank arms [was] quite long so we had some inertia in production. The investigation has led e*thirteen to produce technical service bulletin 157 (TSB), published on its website on 14 October 2021. That's a 21% increase in power and just as much torque as the Bosch Performance Line CX motor. These combinations meet our strict and exacting quality standards. "but since I have to hit the small button repeatedly when my battery charge becomes critical on some rides". Absolutely. Do you think it could be only an issue with Carbon frames then? The Kiox head unit has a nice colour screen with plenty of useful data on it, but were not sold on the magnetic attachment and the fact that the motor wont turn on without the head unit. That is not the case, but all cranks should be checked for proper tightness before riding, and initial installations procedures should be updated, reads TSB 156. The metallurgic analysis was conducted to discover root cause. Purchased an SC Bullit in march and I now have 520 miles on it. Maybe in a next generation they can implement an optional solution analog to what we're already seeing f bicycle chains. It's also a very quiet motor when pedalling. This means its impossible to tell whether you have 21% or 49% battery remaining. Can someone make a bike with 50% - 100% assist? And compared to E8000, the new EP8 motor is considerably more powerful on the trail, whilst retaining the smooth and intuitive delivery that weve always dug about Shimanos drive units. So, when the sensor senses a negative elevation gain, the dynamo kicks in to recharge the battery. Over the past six months of riding, the Shimano EP8 motor has really impressed us with just how much punch it delivers from such a lightweight and compact package. Power less, battery smaller, it lighter is.. Would "every time you push the on switch" have been more understandable? While the increased power certainly grabs most of the headlines, we reckon its the compact form of the Shimano EP8 drive unit that offers the greatest advantage over its competitors. The brand was made aware of failures occurring when the EP8 motor is used with pedal cranks made by brands other than Shimano, including e*thirteens e*spec ebike-specific cranks. Then we'll fix that for you. I have a gen 3 and it's totally quiet when coasting . One of the more intriguing aspects of EP8 is the ability to fine-tune the motors performance via Shimanos E-Tube Project app. In terms of improvements, EP8 is marginally lighter (300g) and smaller in volume (10%) over the old E8000 motor. At full charge in Trail mode it says range is 90km or so but I haven't put that to the test on more mellow trail days but am sure others have. Mkay? On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable at all. It is a feature bro, the sound of pure class. Make it 100 mile range, and I'm in. What a misstep by Shimano to join Bosch in its failure. We see some comments about how bad the Shimano EP8 motor is. With that said, all my riding is tough climbs and steep descents, without an e-bike would be walking up a bunch of it. Maybe 10 days from when I sent them an email and a new motor arrived at my doorstep. Quote Start New Topic Post a reply to: SHIMANO EP8 - won't turn on (new bike) I've never heard the rattling noise that has been posted in the early reviews - the motor is super quiet, so it looks to me like much ado about nothing. Anyone knows what's are those white (ish) shoes the reviewer is using on some of the pics? Others will tell us the EP8 is a weaker motor. You can hear it in the workshop just by lifting the rear wheel and dropping it on the ground, where it sounds a bit like a loose pebble bouncing around inside a wooden box. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. I've spent some time on this motor and it's one of the first to feel organic in the way it adjusts to the rider's pedaling. Shimanos overarching advice is for consumers to only use Shimano-approved pedal cranks on its EP8 motors. Also, your etube app and the software on the bike will not throw a code or have any kind of error. As much as I want an emtb right now, I am waiting until the technology is perfected. Are we ignoring the fact that motor has been recalled/reworked by Shimano, and pushing all new bike deliveries by two months (at least)? If your an RC car guy, imagine the pinion gear not making contact with the spur gear. Weve noticed this while pedalling along forest double tracks and on the road to and from the trailhead, but its also apparent when sprinting along faster sections of singletrack. - Low-drag performance I swapped wheels but didn't realize I had to swap the magnet from the rotor bolts that was connected to the speed sensor in the software. Can never hear it over the sound of the wind rushing by or the trail / wheels noises. As mentioned earlier, the Bosch motor does feel punchier than Shimano EP8, with noticeably stronger support at lower cadences. According to Shimano, design differences between Shimano and non-Shimano cranks cause the axle to crack and eventually fail. Currently, I own two e-bikes with a new 2022 Moustache Samedi 26 Fat 4 with the Bosch Motor on its way. Bunny hops were absolutely a blast on this bike. Plus the prices will drop as the tech becomes cheaper and can be offered at lower prices. Please, It appears you're using an old version of Internet Explorer which is, the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+, that achieves the most discreet integration, the MasterMind TCU display on the new Specialized Levo. So far so good. Der Shimano EP8 ist kleiner und leichter Nicht nur das Motorgehuse ist kleiner, auch das Innenleben des EP8 Motors. If thats the case for you, start at Level 5 and work your way down a notch at a time. I rode an e bike and suffered a little bit yesterday. Not the first time Shimano has screwed the pooch with recent launches. And in terms of backup service and support, the fact that there are far more Shimano dealers than there are Specialized dealers may also be preferable for some riders. In addition to those weve tested, youll be able to find Shimano EP8 on the Santa Cruz Bullit & Heckler, Marin Alpine Trail E2, the Commencal Meta Power, YT Decoy,Pivot Shuttle and Mondraker Dusk. One note on range Shimanos range estimation is not reliable. If youve experienced a Shimano EP8 bottom bracket spindle failure, let us know in the comments below. This occurs if the cap is not correctly tightened or the factory-fitted threadlock hasnt been adequately applied, and if the crank arms pinch bolts arent tightened to their correct torque. The new EP8 drive unit provides incredibly quiet assistance under pedal load. You can't imagine what kind of thought must have gone behind that response? That rattling feeling comes from one way bearing. If speed and maximum power output is less of a concern though, switching into the factory Eco mode is a sure-fire way to get more ride time expect range to double from those figures above. The version I've been riding on was 17,8kg. This is particularly noticeable on traction-poor climbs, even when starting from a standstill. Its a little different though, with Orbea detuning the motors power and assistance to improve efficiency so it can use a smaller and lighter 360Wh battery. Wed much rather see battery life displayed as a percentage, and the option to customise the screen. We bought drive units and crank arms, we are replacing at our cost all damaged parts and are covering labor [and] shipping costs that might occur. I'm 56 with a long term knee injury. There's 21-percent more torque (85 N/m total) in Trail and Boost modes. I thought ebikes were supposed to enable us to do more fun stuff in less time. The ability to customize the boost is very useful, with Shimano's app you can dial it in to your preferences. Also the bikes will be heavy as f*ck with an 820Wh battery. I think Shimano is taking these issues very seriously. Only the Levos belt-driven Brose drive unit beats EP8 in terms of motor noise. What is rattling? I can only hear any motor rattling when I am doing really gnarly rocky downhill. Oh man, so that must mean you know of rigs they've received that they've not done first rides and then field tests on. A forum community dedicated to Mountain Bike owners and enthusiasts. Simply named by Specialized as the 2.2, the motor continues to offer 90Nm of peak torque, and externally it has the same mounting points and overall shape. This also allows brands to more neatly integrate the motor into their frame designs, Canyon having done a particularly swell job with the Spectral:ON. It is the most underrated comment ever on the pinkbike. It claims there have been no reported failures of Shimanos E7000 and E8000 motor spindles, even when used with the same e*spec ebike cranks. The maximum rider support was raised to 400%, compared to the E8000's 300%. There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. Some say it's unreliable with a high risk of getting bricked. All you guys "waiting" to get a ebike are blowing it..the bikes are refined trek rail no problems..going around the country slaying every trail I see chugging beer and laughing at all u haters.. believe me I guys will all be on one sooner than later. It features the new Shimano EP8 motor and a 630wh battery. Cargo Take the load off and breeze past traffic jams Commuting Upgrade your urban lifestyle Active Get sportier in the city SHIMANO CUES Di2 Our all-new SHIMANO CUES Di2 inspires a more active and sportier lifestyle while making commutes less stressful so you can focus on the road - and the ride. I would have respected Shimano more if they owned it and were more forthright about working to resolve it. Improving performance on undulating terrain, Shimano has also increased the EP8s available torque at lower cadences. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I also have Commencal 2021 meta power sx. Shimano also claims this issue is entirely isolated to non-Shimano cranks, stating it is aware of 49 reported cases of spindle failure. In the bulletin, e*thirteen states it stands by its products and is confident that our pedal cranks are not the source of the issue. Recalled but still was delivered with the rattle. 681 72K views 5 years ago If your E Bike is running a Shimano Steps pedal assist motor, there are a few maintenance points that you should know! - Can we have remaining battery displayed as a percentage please? If you don't like e-bikes for whatever reason, you really have no business even commenting on this review. The DIODE has the Shimano E8000 motor and both bikes regardless of motor specs and differences do one thing really, really wellthey make riding FUN! I have not heard of a recall, so I did some digging. Its the Orbea Rise that achieves the most discreet integration however, with a frame that was purpose-built around the smaller EP8 motor, rather than having been retrofitted from a previous E8000 drive unit. Put on i9 Hydra hubs, annoying motor rattle sounds disappears. 1. e-bikes remove the only non-financial barrier for entry into a sport that historically required at least some small amount of fitness. While I am at the age/account to have one, I couldn't imagine riding longer than my 630W battery lasted, i don't think i would be able to walk for a week. 2a - Using a 5mm hex key, loosen counterclockwise and remove the preload cap. We will have them soon available in all our subsidiaries (Canada, USA, Chile, Australia, NZ and Reunion Island) to reach all our customers worldwide.. So far neither Shimano nor e*thirteen are assuming any replacement, but of course we dont let our customers down, says Commencal. Alex is also a dedicated eMTB rider, and still dabbles in racing of a sort, doing his best to top the Strava leaderboard on the steepest, gnarliest and twistiest trails the Tweed Valley has to offer just for fun, of course. I chose this bike because it has the EP8 and from research, seems to be the most reliable platform out there, assuming it's as reliable as the E8000. Annoying rattle, did anyone say that to Shimano when they first introduced the freewheel? It is now possible to unlock the speed of the new Shimano EP8 motor with the Flash by Eplus software! Its almost as if the battery drains faster in that final 20%. Come join the discussion about bike parts, components, deals, performance, modifications, classifieds, trails, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Mine gets very hot. To replicate field failures, we had to look outside of the required ISO and EN testing requirements as those tests were passed successfully. The reported cases of drive unit spindle breakages on our DU-EP800 drive units were combined with non-Shimano cranks. He was pretty happy about ANT compatibility. - A little more overrun on technical climbs would be swell It is MUCH less powerful, but there is no rattle, no weird cut off, no jerky pedal action. This is because the assistance drops off quite quickly when you stop pedalling, particularly compared to the Bosch motor, which continues to push on for just a fraction longer. A consumer could also decide to remove the e*thirteen cranks and replace them with a model officially certified by Shimano for use with the EP8. Subscribe to Cycling Plus from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! What settings you end up will depend on your personal riding style, and your expectations of range and power output. Indeed Specialized actually built the new Levo around a mullet setup with a 27.5in rear wheel, in order to shorten the chainstays. For a lighter pedal feel than the E8000, the one-way bearing has reduced its rotational resistance, creating a free play. Basically, the battery level drops from around 30% to 2% extremely quickly. As to how the de-tuned EP8 motor performs? I'm honestly flabbergasted that people complain about it tbh lol. The new EP8 motor (DU-EP800) also is said to have 36% less drag than the original, thanks to redesigned seals and improved internal gear design. I have the EP8 on a Commencal Meta Power. The updated Trail mode is brilliant, and the option to fine-tune each assist mode is a welcome feature for achieving the desired feel while maximising range. There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. But please don't anyone kid themselves that it's as much of a work out as an analogue bike, if there was no mechanical advantage over analogue what would be the benefit. Can't see the equivalent of a ribbed chainstay protector happening. From what I get from the article, what would actually bother me more is how it kicks in from a standstill or trackstand. So then it gets really confusing as it seems like the first bar lasts 30% and the last one 10%. The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: The Real Bike Weights from PB Editors. In comparison, the MasterMind TCU display on the new Specialized Levo offers a significantly more customisable and overall user-friendly experience. Subscribe from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! There are 5 levels of adjustment from Mild to Quick, with the highest setting requiring only a small rotation with light pedal force to engage the motor. If in doubt about such components, we recommend speaking to your bicycle manufacturer.. Now, we're not going to be working on the actual. Save 30% + G-Form Pro X3 Knee Pads when you subscribe to MBUK magazine. According to e*thirteen, the safety inspection is relevant to all EP8 owners, regardless of what cranks are fitted. Anyone having problems with the charger? If that fails check those thin cables have no freys and are all in tact, they are easily damaged. A bit like chain slap when you don't apply force on the pedals. The noise is easily demonstrated if you pick the back wheel up a few inches off the ground and let it come back down. If a dynamo can be worked into the wheel hubs, you may even get near perpetual charging while the system is in use. Those Merida ebikes ride quite good too. Now well point out here that the Bosch Gen 4 motor exhibits a similar metallic clacking noise, since its internal gear system also employs a clutch. Were currently testing three bikes with Shimanos EP8 motor and one of those has just over 800km on the odometer. 2b - If threadlock patch is present, move on to step 3. The EM800 display features built-in Bluetooth and ANT+ wireless connectivity for pairing both your phone and a compatible GPS head unit, allowing you to display information such as battery life and remaining range. Thus, I could ride a few feet with power then the motor would cut off. A dynamo and regenerative braking is the ONLY thing stopping from buying an e-bike? Let us know what those are so we can demand them! Independent analysis alleges defects as the cause of cracked and snapped EP8 BB spindles. Damn, sorry to hear this especially since I own the same bike! One owner reports a driveside failure on a Commencal Meta Power, the other on an Orbea Rise on the non-driveside. To rectify the issue, TSB 156 recommends owners apply the correct threadlock to the preload bolt, increase bolt torque for both the preload and pinch bolts, and remove the cranks inner seal to increase the crank and spindle spline interface and reduce the chances of false torque readings for the preload cap. If youre sprinting at speed, the Levo feels sticky and lazy in comparison to the drag-free EP8 motor. JavaScript is disabled. If there is no threadlocker patch, move onto point 2c. My Bullit died after 80 miles - same symptoms you describe. The Bosch motor produces the same 85Nm peak torque output as Shimano EP8, and it offers a similarly drag-free ride quality beyond the 25km/h cutoff due to the motor decoupling from the cranks. Couldn't agree more. Yeah, that's pretty poor! Still, given the lengths that bike and drivetrain manufacturers have gone to stealthify mountain bikes over the past few years, we found the noisy EP8 motor to be infuriating during the first few rides just as we did with the Bosch Gen 4. @tomdesoals: That excuse that Shimano put out by their customer service dept . Wait, 23-27kms? e*thirteen is one of the biggest OEM suppliers of cranks on electric mountain bikes. 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